What Could Aliens Tell Us?

A Conversation with Jim McCarty about "The Law of One"

[This conversation has a 10/10 Woo Rating, obviously]

I’ve really struggled with whether to publish this article and interview. As I wrote in my last piece, the last few months has seen a fierce battle with my inner skeptic. One reason is that I’ve been drawn to exploring the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP)/Non-Human-Intelligence (NHI) topic. I’ve subsequently learned that it’s no longer a fringe subject confined to unserious people (Tuttle even just filed an Alien Disclosure ETF!).¹ And yet, broaching this discussion can still be career suicide within many mainstream institutions. An unscientific poll of my X followers indicated that 30% of people still see it as a socially taboo topic. Leaving the Cave of Consensus is dangerous.

I would summarise the general view from the last few months of private conversations as: “it’s statistically likely we’re not alone in the universe, but it’s statistically unlikely we’d find that out right now.” This was supported by another of my polls. And the prediction markets Kalshi and Polymarket both put the odds of disclosure by the end of 2025 at around 10%. This seems low, but is clearly not priced-in. The disclosure of sufficiently advanced alien (or even clandestine human) technology could obviously reshape the global economy overnight.

The assumption that we won’t get disclosure anytime soon is logical, but what if it’s also wrong? Because the technological, financial, political and even civilizational implications are so unthinkable, most people simply avoid the entire idea. Worse, the immensity of the potential revelations make for horrendous communication incentives. The information ecosystem is filled with deliberate deception, insanity and fantasy. This means I’ve given up trying to anticipate the timing of disclosure or the truth of the next new development.

So I’ve largely gravitated towards more perennial or enduring content. This has led me to wonder: if we discovered aliens existed tomorrow, what would they then teach us about how our reality actually worked? What might we learn the day AFTER disclosure?

Artificial Intelligence has familiarised us all with the uncanny feeling of asking questions to a non-human entity. Now imagine if you had access to a non-human intelligence that knew more of the secrets of the Universe we do. This is what The Law of One claims to be. It’s a series of 106 conversations from 1981-1984, between Jim McCarty, Don Elkins, a professor of physics and UFO investigator, and “Ra,” speaking through Carla Rueckert. Ra states that it/they are a “sixth-density social memory complex” that formed on Venus about 2.6 billion years ago. Ra says that they are “humble messengers of the Law of One” and that they previously tried to spread this message in Egypt with mixed results. Jim is the only surviving member of the trio.

The correct default response to this kind of “channeled” material is obviously skepticism (although the Law of One seems to be one of the more highly-regarded²). As with this entire genre, we should start with the assumption that it’s false, misleading or even malevolent. So I’m not just destroying my own credibility, I’d be accidentally amplifying some kind of sneaky alien demon. Hence my hesitance to publish this. But I invite you to suspend judgement and employ your own discernment. I recently read all 1,200 pages, as did my fellow Leading Edge member Jeff Williams.

Ultimately I don’t know what my confidence level is that this material is “genuine,” but it’s definitely resonant. Ra’s message revolves around Earth as a place where we undergo repeated incarnations in order to choose our unique form of loving service and the evolution of our consciousness. Along with reincarnation, this “Earth School” framing has had the most positive incremental effect on my life of any woo belief so far. Along with many other “New Age” traditions, Ra also says we are in the middle of a transition to “Fourth Density,” which we discussed in more detail. Jeff and I conducted a forty minute interview with Jim McCarty for The Leading Edge (Spotify/Apple Podcasts).

---

Transcript: The Leading Edge - Tom Morgan & Jeff Williams with Jim McCarty on The Law of One

Tom: This is Tom Morgan from the Leading Edge. Today we have the distinct honor of welcoming Jim McCarty to the show. Jim is a co-author of The Law of One, also known as The Ra Material, a series of highly influential channel teachings. As one of the founders of LL Research, Jim worked closely with Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert in the 1980s to channel the entity Ra, whose teachings delve into the nature of consciousness, the evolution of the soul, and the unity of all things. I'm also joined by Jeff Williams, who I half-jokingly refer to as Leading Edge's Chief Mystical Officer.

We both read all 1,200 pages of the Ra material over Christmas and have loads of questions Jeff, why don't you take it away?

Jeff: Hey, Jim. Well, thank you, Tom. And Jim, thanks for being here. It's a pleasure to be with you. For our listeners who may not be familiar, could you just give us a quick summary of what is the Law of One?

Jim: Well, basically the Law of One says that the one infinite creator, what you may call God or spirit or whatever name any religion or person might have for it, created the entire universe out of itself so that it could know itself better. So all of what we have to do in order to be a member of the Law of One family is to begin that journey ourselves, try to figure out who we are, how we relate to the creator and how everything we do is part of the journey of being back into unity with the Creator. We seemingly are separate and that seeming separation is created by the veil of forgetting that we go through into this third density. We forget all of that. So that’s helpful in getting us back on that path, believe it or not. The fact that we forgot it all because there was a time when there was no veil and everyone knew they were a Creator and had to repeat their density time and again. So now that we have that veil, we all have that little feeling inside that that is the case. And it's an unconscious feeling usually. And then as we become awakened spiritual seekers, then we pursue that in a conscious fashion. And we try to share that love and light of the creator with everyone around us, be of service to others.

Tom: You kept using the word density, That's one of the more fascinating aspects of the worldview of Ra. Could you just quickly explain what that is for listeners?³

Jim: The density is like an octave in the musical score or scale. Each density of light has more light in it. So our third density doesn't have as much light as is the fourth density that we are hopefully moving into now. And as you go up the scale of the densities, there's more and more light, more and more ability to feel and express the beingness of the creator and to reunify with your creator.

Tom: And you said we're moving into fourth density now. What does that mean to you? Well, apparently, according to Ra, this is a process that's been ongoing for 75,000 years. And we're at the end of the cycle and it would take a good deal of time more in our way of looking at things, between a hundred and 700 years, before there's a possibility of a graduation into the fourth density as a group. Now, individuals have been able to, when they move out of their bodies into what we call the death process, the death of the body, they walk into the light and that light looks into the violet ray chakra on the top of the head. That’s determined by how we have been able to open the lower energy centers, red, orange and yellow and get into our heart of unconditional love. And if we can do that at least 51 % of the time, then individuals can be graduated or harvested into the fourth density. And Ra suggested that's been going on now since just before World War II.

Jeff: Jim, you mentioned a moment ago, the veil, which is something I find fascinating. Can you talk a little bit more about the veil and the purpose of it?

Jim: As I said, at the beginning of the creation, it's not a set deal, just exactly how things are going to turn out. So at the beginning, there was no veil of forgetting. When entities graduated from the second density of plants and animals and had their spirit complex activated, then they saw what is the nature of reality, the unity of all things, that every entity was the infinite creator. And so there was no reason from love or fear to try to move forward because they were the creator. Why go anywhere else? But they knew that there was a purpose that they needed to go forward, but they weren't able to. So they had to repeat the third density time and again. So the various logoi got together and said, well, let's try putting a veil of forgetting, a block of the conscious mind, so it's not aware of all of this. It's only in the subconscious mind. So that turned out to be something that helped the evolution, to take away the obvious fact that we are all one. And make it an illusion of separation so that that little feeling deep inside our subconscious mind, kind of like a seed that would try to germinate. And as we gave it more attention, just thinking there's more to the nature of my life and the reality. And eventually as people get together in groups, seeking together, they help each other to discover that. So that was what happened.

People began to become consciously aware, spiritual seekers, to try to work with those lower energies, the red, the orange and the yellow, where we are in our third density now and there's so much strife and difficulty and separation and confusion. And by working with all of that as catalyst and balancing it out and seeing that we are everything, we are part of that confusion, but we could be part of the clarity as well.

When we do that at least 51 % of the time, then we are able to move forward into the fourth density. And I think it happens more frequently when people join together in groups, like there are groups all over the world and they don't necessarily have to be religious groups, although there are many, the mystical aspect of every religion has the perennial philosophy of the Law of One. So as these groups help each other, then there's light, these springing up around the planet, more light into the darkness of forgetting. And we help each other move into that nature of our being the one creator.

Jeff: Yeah, thank you. That's fascinating. And, and you mentioned the mystical, Jim, one of the things I've loved about the Ra material, and also the other channeling work that you your team have done, is that typically the mystics tell us about the inner worlds, the astral plane, the psychonoetic planes of existence, but it seems that Ra and some of these other entities, they're really informing us of the outer worlds and the higher densities that exist throughout the vastness of the universe. I've not come across that in really any of the other material that I've explored. But yet I still find it all remarkably consistent with a mystical framework, which is why for me it's been so beautiful. Can you comment on that?

Jim: Well, if I understand your question correctly, the mystical framework is usually dealing with something that is beyond this world. And what the Ra did was to talk about how it applies to this world. I think that's basically it. I mean, it's the lens through which Ra sees or shared the nature of reality with us. That it wasn't something that was way off somewhere else. It was something we all contain and we share with each other. And if we would do that with groups, like the groups we had brought to Ra contact through or other groups around the country and around the world, that this is something that's been going on for years.

In fact, we've gotten information from friends of ours who are indigenous people, Native Americans in this country, that indigenous peoples around the world have had contact with UFOs for thousands of years and their philosophy of being part of the creation around them, that they don't own the land, they live on the land. It's the creator's land. So I think it's been around for a long time and most of the rest of us have, we've to catch up with what's been accomplished by the indigenous people all over the world.

Tom: So with that in mind, the reason why we're talking is because there's been so much interest in non-traditional communities that we deal in like tech and Wall Street in, you know, non-human intelligence and UAPs because of what we've been seeing in New York and New Jersey and just, think, a broadening of interest in these topics. Do you have a sense for why now, either why the interest now or why the increase in sightings?

Jim: I think that there's an effort on the of many different higher density beings to help planet Earth through the difficulties that's apparent. It's been so many years now. We've had thousands of years of wars that have not subsided. They keep increasing and there's divisions between people. But there's also opportunities, like I said, for spiritual groups to grow and to share this philosophy of unity with each other and the world around them. And they want to be of service there because the difficulties we're experiencing on earth now are a call, a call for assistance that we need to have that so that we can all see that we are all brothers and sisters. We are the same. There's not a true division, but that division can also help negatively oriented entities to do their thing, to graduate in the negative sense, because that is possible. As Ra said, the Creator blinks neither at the light nor the darkness. Their power is the same as ours. So that is something that's happening now. There is a division of polarities and people are hopefully choosing, but it seems like there is what Ra called a sinkhole of indifference where most people have no idea that that's why they're here. Many people are here because they did not make the graduation on another third density planet and had to try again. So they came to earth. So earth is kind of unusual in that way. We've got, think Ra had at least 13 different sources of third density planet populations that have come here to make another go. Hopefully everybody can discover that. And that's why I think we're getting all of this attention from the advanced civilizations that are taking forms of UAPs, UFOs, recently over New Jersey, those sightings. I think all of that is part of what's to help us do what we're here to do. And that is to be spiritual seekers of truth and to make a choice and to, if we make the positive choice, do whatever we can to help our brothers and sisters make that choice too.

Tom: Well, you beautifully led into another question that we wanted to address, which is, you you've spoken for the last few years about this concept of emerald children or indigo children who, since the eighties were coming into earth to basically assist with this kind of pivotal moment. Something we've been exploring as a community is the explosive popularity of The Telepathy Tapes, which seems like it would be consistent with a lot of the stuff that you've been talking about in terms of the traits of these children. Does that sound right to you?

Jim: It certainly does. I think that there are various terms and various kinds of these children that have been being born into the third density here on Earth. think Ra said it started back when we had the Ra contact in 81, about 15,000 of those children with dual-activated bodies at that time. They had already graduated on a third density planet and they came here to be of service because they saw all the problems we had as a great opportunity to be of service.

And then as time has gone on, more entities of what we call the crystal children or the indigo children, or what Carla called the systems busters, they had different ways of doing things, but they were very effective. They might not have been understood by the world around them, just as the children now who are supposedly autistic and do not have the ability to speak, speak in a way that we don't understand because they do it telepathically.

They're advanced, they're into the fourth density type of speaking. So I think that this being able to telepathically transmit and receive information is the beginning of everybody on the planet being able to do that if they could join together in a social memory complex and move forward into the fourth density in either the positive or negative sense.

Jeff: And so Jim, with all these events happening that you're referring to, does that lead you to believe that something could be imminent with regards to harvest or moving into fourth density? Or how do you think about those things?

Jim: Yes, I think that this is really the time of decision. And as I mentioned before, Ra suggested that this is the time period that will take about 100 to 700 of our years. And they couldn't be more specific because of the volatility of the people that were on our planet. So it was something though that could happen in one fine, strong moment of inspiration, as they said in 6512, could your planet polarize positively in one fine, strong moment of inspiration? “Yes, my friends, it is ever possible. It is not probable, but it could happen.” So that was one possibility. They said we should not ignore that. So, you know, that is a very optimistic outlook. I think if we could just get more people aware of the need to polarize one way or the other, that that would be a great way to do it. But we're having trouble. That sinkhole of indifference is sort of dragging a lot of people down.

Jeff: Speaking of that, your partner Carla, she wrote a fantastic book called Living the Law of One 101. Well, and I found that book in some ways even more digestible than the original source material. But could you talk a little bit about that book and what it means to live the Law of One from a practical standpoint on a daily basis?

Jim: Carla wrote that book because a lot of people had said, well, I kind of get the feeling that there's a lot of good information in the Ra contact, but it's kind of dense for me, you know? I mean, I don't really get it.

So she wanted to write a book that the average person who was a spiritual seeker could understand those concepts. So she went through the basic concepts and shared them in the book. And I think that a lot of people have been very grateful for that because it does make it easier when you kind of step it down a bit and simplify the concepts and make them more understandable. So that was her goal. And she also made the outlines for Living The Law of One 102, the outer work, and Living Law of One 103, the inner work. But she just got the outlines done before she passed into larger life. So fortunately, I've been able to do the writing so that both of those books have been written now. And I've completed the audiobook for 102. And Austin said it should be available in the next couple of months. And then we'll get started on making an audiobook for 103.

Jeff: you're hearing it on Leading Edge first, right? It's amazing.

Tom: So, I mean, let's back up for a second. It seems that based on what you've said and what came from Ra that the purpose of this density where we find ourselves now is to make a choice. Can you talk about the nature of that choice and how you've come to interpret it between now since now and 1981?

Jim: Well, the choice is a polarization of our consciousness. And if we don't have a polarization one way or the other, positive or negative, like your car battery, if it doesn't have a charge between you, a difference between the positive and negative, then you're not going to start your car. So we have to start our spiritual journey by becoming spiritual seekers of truth and polarizing our consciousness.

Hopefully in the positive sense, because that is what will get us where we want to go. And we do that by working with those red, orange and yellow energy centers. Those are the third density. And those are where we have difficulties. The red is sexuality and survival. And that is basically what people do when they're fighting wars. They're afraid they're not going to survive. They're gonna beat somebody.

In the orange, we're looking at our relationships of one-to-one. You and your dad, you and your teacher, you and your neighbor, you and a stranger on the street, and how we relate there. Because we can expand our relationship, or it can go another direction, just like survival. We could have difficulties, disharmonious experiences, incomplete communications. And then you magnify it again on the yellow lever of groups. Groups, whether they're your school, your workplace, your state, your country. So everything gets expanded as you move up towards the heart. And as you're able to resolve the difficulties in the red, the orange and the yellow, then you have the opportunity to work with the green ray energy center. That is the unconditional love of those around you, seeing everyone as the creator. And that is where you are able to graduate or be harvested into the fourth density. And that's what we're all working on. This is a school room. This is a third density school. We're trying to get into the fourth density now. And we have to polarize our consciousness. We do that by being more and more aware and conscious of the need to choose a path, choose a positive path, choose a negative path, but choose a path where you're going to have to go through all of this again.

Tom: And those paths are service-to-self and service to others. And as I understand it, service-to-self is manipulating the free will of others, know, enslaving in its worst case. Service to others is this concept of, the distinction I saw you guys make in the introduction to the law of one was that service to others was also service to self and others because we are all one. I worry that when people hear the concept of service to others, they think it's kind of self-sacrifice and martyrdom. And I wanted to know how you saw that in terms of practical terms when people live their lives.

Jim: Yes. the first person, believe it or not, that you need to learn how to love is yourself. If you can't love yourself, it's going to have a hard time learning to love anybody else. Jesus said “love your neighbor as yourself,” meaning first you have to love yourself. So then you can share that love that you honestly and authentically feel for yourself with those about you. And that is a way of making that choice of sharing your love in whatever fashion, scooping snow off the neighbors driveway to help them get their car in, or somebody drops their groceries coming out of the grocery store, pick them up and get them in the car. Everything is a way to serve. You don't have to be any expanded type of service of writing a great book like Carla did or you know, doing amazing things in your rituals of meditation. Just open your heart, see a way of serving, look for ways, go through your daily round of activities with that on your mind of how, is there a chance I could be of service as I'm out shopping today or walking through the neighborhood or taking a vacation in this or that place? Because there's always service possibilities coming up. And if you really set your mind to do it, as Carla said, set your intention to do this, then that lets your subconscious mind know more and more that you want to do that which you've come to do, which you've pre-incarnatedly chosen. Everybody here on the planet has made pre-incarnated choices before going through the veil of forgetting. And many times they say, wow, know, this, that's looks like it's going to be okay. I'm going to do this and this and this. And sometimes they try to do too much. They take like too many courses in college and they don't pass all of them. But it's always there. It's always a possibility. Just keep your mind, your heart and your eyes open and look for those possibilities of being of service and join with others of like mind, get together with other seekers and share your journey, share your difficulties, help each other on that path. That's what we're here for. And then expand that and hopefully more groups will form. Your group will get bigger. This is our path, the path we take together.

Tom: That's kind of in keeping with the general theme of the Ra text is that he's really specific. So, you know, he says that if you're at 95:5 service to self relative to service to others, or like 51:49 service to others versus service to self, all you need to do is have that like one percentage over 50 in order to polarize positive, but you really need to be pushing away at like 95, five in order to polarize negative. Why are the two ratios so skewed, do you think?

Jim: I really don't know. At one point, it's indicated, Ra indicated that the negative path is much more difficult and they don't explain why. But then at another point, they indicate that it's just as difficult to be 51 % in service to others as it is 99.5 % service to self. That's one of the places where I've never really understood why it was said to be so more difficult.

It seems like 99.5 would be very difficult to do anything that purely in the third density, but negatively oriented entities apparently are able to do that. However, we've not had so far that many negative entities graduate. It looks like the negative entity harvest would be much smaller here. Unfortunately right now, Ra said it also looks like the positive harvest would be pretty small too. We can always hope for more.

Tom: Well, in terms of practice, something I heard you say in another interview that really caught my ear was that in every transmission that you guys have had since 1961, the entities have said that meditation was the path to spiritual enlightenment. And then also this concept of a daily review, where you look back over your behavior and work out how you behaved, which is something that Jeff and I have seen in a lot of other key kind of key mystical texts. Is that like what we should be thinking about in terms of us like for a daily practice?

Jim: Yeah, I think that's really, those are the foundation stones, especially meditation because Ra suggested that that still small voice of the creator is there. And Carla kind of amplified it by saying in meditation, the creator speaks to us in terms or concepts too deep for words. So when we meditate, we're actually in the presence of the creator. And we can use that presence and that meditation to look back upon the day that we've gone through and see where we moved away from that feeling of love. We get up in the morning, it's a great day, I'm ready to go. Everything's good looking in my world right now. That feeling of acceptance. And then you go through your day, your daily round of activities and one problem might exist with the disharmonious communication or you were banged into somebody's car with yours, one thing and another. So at the end of the day, Ra suggested it's a good idea to look back over all those experiences and in the meditative state, then to amplify what took you off your path of love and make it big, really make it outstandingly huge. And I think just ingrain it into our being. Then for the moment, just image the opposite, patience, impatience, love, hate, whatever. Then allow it to get just as big as the first experience. Then accept yourself for having both of those experiences as a means by which you can know the Creator and the Creator can know itself. And if you continue doing that throughout your life path, then eventually you become closer and closer to being what Ra said was a “360 degree being,” which is the Creator. The Creator is everything, everything there is. And so that's our goal; to try to become all of that in our mind. We don't have to do all of that actually. We just have to be able to experience what we really experience and then magnify it to its opposite. If we had a hateful experience with somebody, we just do that in our mind. We don't try to do that in the world around us because that happens enough.

Tom: Yeah, one of the passages that really stuck with me from Ra was basically saying the sign of the transition into fourth density would be an increase in the prevalence of visibility of psychic abilities, check, an increase of this message of unity caused by love, check, and then an increase in mental illness caused by people coming into contact with their shadow for the first time. And boy, like it seems like we're hitting all three of those marks right now. Jeff, you got a question?

Jeff: Yeah, Jim, I know for me, one of the most helpful concepts that Ra speaks of is catalysts, right? We live in a world where there seem to be a never ending stream of challenges that we face in life. But it seems according to Ra that each of those challenges are presented to us as a choice. Can you elaborate on that?

Jim: Yes, catalyst is, I think, Baba Ram Dass said, it grist for the mill. It's the food that helps us to grow. And growing means that we're changing. And changing usually is painful because we have to become a new person in some aspect. The gem of our being has various facets. And as this possibility for growth comes through the catalyst of difficulty, then if we can use that difficulty in that balancing exercise that I was suggesting, that Ra suggested, then that's how we can grow. But growth isn't easy. If it was easy, it wouldn't mean anything. But if you can take the difficulty and the pain of change and work with it to see how it makes you a better person, a better spiritual seeker, more loving and of service to others, then it's well worth the effort. And if more people could see that, that that is way we grow. And sometimes it's not easy. Then it would be a much more efficient way of living together. But that is not known by most people. They see catalyst as something that they're gonna get revenge or they're gonna ignore or not gonna use at all. So that catalyst though, it's the way we grow. It's the steps to our higher self, to our becoming the creator, that's a long journey.

Tom: And you said earlier that your higher self made these kind pre-incarnative choices where it was these are the experiences that Jim or Jeff or Tom are going to have when we incarnate into earth this time. And that's consistent with some other different sources like Many Lives, Many Masters, where people talk about living out soul lessons over the course of their life to either reverse some karma or to have a particular kind of experience they've elected before.

But it it confused me in the text, the relationship between us and this higher self. And I was wondering if you could shed some more light on how those two relationships work kind of across time.

Jim: Well, apparently before we incarnate, we do get together with our higher self and some of our guides and we make these plans, pre-incarnational plans for what we would like to accomplish in the upcoming incarnation. So once we are incarnate, there are times when we might need some help, we might ask for help in inner meditations or in our dreams. Dreams are also a good way of communication with the higher self. There might be a message that might be difficult to discern right away, but something that peaks our curiosity and that gives us a chance to maybe take a different step that we've been taking. So I think that the higher self is supposedly in the sixth density, mid-sixth density. It sees the path, they're all available to us and gives us a chance to make these choices to get to where we want to go.

So that's something that we could do, especially if we ask for that help in our meditation and get the help and then use it, use it. So it's food for our growth as well. It's the more inspirational type. It's not as difficult. It's something that the difficulty might be in discerning just exactly what the message is because sometimes it comes in synchronicities, seeing our totem animal. For us during the Ra contact the hawk was a suggestion that we were doing the right thing. So I think the higher self and other guides, our male or female and our androgynous guides, are all sources of inspiration on our helping us to direct us on our path, seeking the truth of the nature of reality as being you, as being one.

Tom: And you've had a long history of channeling different entities both before and after the Ra material and you said you'd spoken to a fourth density, fifth density beings, and then Ra identified themselves as a sixth density being. The questions I had were like, given you've had all these different contexts, did it feel to you that Ra was that much more advanced than other entities you'd spoken to? And the addendum question, which I've always wanted to ask you, which is that I think once people get over the hump of maybe this is genuine, then they think. Well, how do we know this isn't a malevolent entity, someone from what you would call the Orion group? How do we know this guy isn't screwing with us in some way.

Jim: Well, when we were channeling the fourth density of the Hatonn and the fifth density of Latwii, this was conscious channeling. It was telepathic though, a lot of UFO contacts throughout the history of the planet Earth have been with people in a telepathic sense. So the telepathic channeling was very inspiring. And that's what really got me interested in coming up before I was living in central Kentucky in the woods at that time every Sunday night to join Don and Carla in their Sunday night meditations. And I was just blown away by, you know, when the Latwii came through, because it was obvious that the information was more detailed, more advanced than Hatonn. Hatonn was the basics, the fourth density, and there was Latwii, now the fifth density. So I could see a difference there. But when the Ra contact started, well, it just was, you know, exponentially different because it wasn't telepathic. Carla was not in her body. She was with Ra in the inner planes of earth. Ra was using her body to speak. You probably have listened to what it sounds like with Carla channeled Ra. It's very slow and very meditative. And it's much more detailed. it has the feeling of being just totally loving. Now anybody can interpret any information in whatever way they want. Because some people just say, wow, that was not possible that you could do that. You made that up. And in fact, I think on the internet about 10 years ago, I read that somebody said, well, Don and Carla wrote that. They didn't actually channel that. So, you know, people can use it or not use it. It doesn't really matter to me. But if it speaks to your heart, then I think that it's worth using. And when I heard the Ra contact, I was, I could not believe that this was happening. I actually wasn't at the first session. I was out shopping for groceries because you know, Ra didn't say, “we're going to be speaking to you next Wednesday.” it just happened on a Wednesday when Don and Carla were teaching another Sunday night meditation student how to channel. It had occurred. So I was out shopping for groceries. When I got home, I came in the front door and in session 1.9, you'll see they had her deep in the instrument state. Well, I would walk through the front door with the groceries in my hand during the first session. So I went down the hall and put them in the kitchen. And after the session was over, Don came to me and he would say, Don didn't usually get excited about things. He was pretty cool guy. But he said, “this is it. We've been waiting 19 years for this. This is it. Could you transcribe this right now?” And I said, “now?” He said, “yes, yes, yes. Could you do that?” And so as I started transcribing it, I said, “wow, yeah, this is it.”

Jeff: Jim, I thought I'd throw in a fun question. So according to Ra, we as humans, currently in third density, of course, but our pets, such as our dogs, are second density. And it seems based on Ra's comments that we can help our dogs and our cats to move along into third density. How would we do this?

Jim: Well, that is something that is, I think Ra said that really the most usual way for second density entities to move into third is for the pet. And that is done by creating a bond of love between you and the pet so that that feeling is exchanged time and time again throughout the years of the pet's life, however long it might be. And as the pet gets more and more embodied with that love, then when its body dies, then it has developed the spirit. It was the mind-body complex before the love was there. So you inculcate that love in the pet, in its heart, and it gives it back to you. And that bond helps the pet to become a third density being. And I had a couple of cats about two and a half years ago. They were a brother and sister, Danny and Chloe, passed into larger life and I believe became third density beings because I had a dream with Carla where she said exactly that, that they had made it into third density thanks to being here with her and then when she was gone with me. And so I think that everybody has that chance with their pet, whatever pet you've got, to develop that bond of love. It's just like we have to develop that bond of love with everybody else around us in order for us to make it into the the fourth density, we can help pets make it into the third density with that same bond. Love is the great protector. Love is the great energizer. Love is the goal.

Tom: Thank you. So this this material has been out, you know, for basically as long as I've been alive. And I heard you say in other interviews that you're really feeling like, like now is different from previous times. And the reason why I asked that question is because as someone who's relatively new to quote “New Age” material, I feel one of the common criticisms people offer is that like, you know, people have been talking about the New Age since the 60s.

And here we are and like nothing's happened. I'm like, well, Ra did say it was going to take between, you know, one and seven centuries. And actually it started before World War II. This period did. And does it feel to you like things are definitely changing in the last few years?

Jim: I think that things are going in both directions, positively and negatively. The more and more are choosing. I think that's a good thing. Even though the negative things don't feel that good. I think it's a chance for everybody to polarize. I hope that more people can make that choice, positive or negative, because that's what the third density is all about. We're all on a journey back into unity with the one infinite creator to help the creator know itself by every experience we have. And the more polarized our experience, the more intense it is, then we all, the creator and we and everyone around us gets to know more about the nature of our reality and how we move through it in a positive or negative sense.

Tom: Well, then let's, let's leave our audience with something. We started with a summary, and I think we'll end with a conclusion, to people who maybe came into this conversation skeptical. What do you think they should take back out into the world from this conversation that will help improve their daily life or alter their behavior in any meaningful way?

Jim: Well, I would hope that if the person is listening to this for the first time, they might just look at what was said, get a hold. You can go to our website, www.llresearch.org and read any of our books in the PDF format for free.

And so pick a book, something that I would suggest one of the Law of One books. There were five of those that we later got to publish them in two volumes. Read it and make a decision for yourself. Open your heart and put yourself in the place of somebody who is hungry for more information, wanting to make another step on the journey of your own life. Because we're all unique souls and the Law of One isn't the only way to get where we're going.

Maybe you know a better way. And if you do, great, follow it. But give this a shot. Just give it a try and see what you think.

Tom: Perfect way to leave it. Jim and Carty, thank you so much for your time today. Jeff Williams, thank you as well. My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you.

1. Tuttle Capital files for ‘alien tech’ ETF

2. Subjectively the most popular seem to be: Law of One, A Course in Miracles, Seth, Conversations with God, Bashar and Bringers of the Dawn.

3. In Ra’s cosmology, there are eight “densities” of existence. First density is elements like fire and water. Second density is plant and animal life. Humans are third density entities, which brings self-awareness and the ability to make conscious choices. Beyond Third Density we have: Fourth Density (Love): Entities evolve into collective consciousness, emphasizing unconditional love. Fifth Density (Wisdom): Integration of love and wisdom through advanced understanding. Sixth Density (Unity): Balancing love and wisdom, approaching oneness with the Creator. Seventh Density (Gateway): Completion of the learning cycle, preparing for reemergence into the Infinite Creator. Eighth Density (Infinity): The octave of existence folds back into the Infinite Creator to begin anew.